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Posted Mon, 19 Feb 2024 14:59:40 GMT by HMRC Admin 5
Hi Robert Gray

Thank you for your enquiry. The bank details now shown on GOV.UK have been updated and they are the correct details to use if you are living abroad but still have a UK bank account that you are paying from (08-32-20, account number 12001004) - Pay Class 2 National Insurance if you do not pay through Self Assessment: Make an online or telephone bank transfer - GOV.UK ( The sort code and account number that you have quoted should no longer be used.

Thank you
Posted Mon, 19 Feb 2024 15:20:42 GMT by Keith
That link takes you to "How to get your National Insurance Number in Writing" not how to pay Class 2 NI
Posted Tue, 20 Feb 2024 13:47:57 GMT by
Hi there, I have submitted Form 83 and recently received a response (in ~26 weeks- thank you!). My issue is that I no longer have a UK Bank Account- it was automatically closed due to US regulations several years ago. I have a Wise account- can this be used for making top up NIC payments? If not, how would you suggest that I make payments? Thank you
Posted Tue, 20 Feb 2024 14:30:47 GMT by Donald Benson
Wise is a UK registered Bank.
Posted Thu, 22 Feb 2024 04:01:22 GMT by
I recently received 2 letters from HMRC to a letter I wrote to them in Feb 2023. The first was to confirm the missing payments since 2006 and the amount to be paid (I moved abroad in 1993 and still in same employment). HMRC confirmed that I am Class 2. They provided the link to making payments online from overseas. So far, so good. I have seen on this forum a reply by HMRC stating that the oft-searched for 18 digit number does not apply to overseas payments and that on the website they give an example of what the reference number should be (NI#, plus IC, name, initial). Again, all well and good - however - when I rang HMRC, the lady I dealt with, who was lovely and very helpful and who recorded all the above in my file, then gave me an 18 digit reference number just in case I needed it! Now, I'm worried that if I make the payment and use one, other or both the reference numbers I have at my disposal that the money will get lost. Grateful if HMRC can give me clear guidance here on this forum as to exactly which reference number I am to put down. The second letter I received from HMRC was an apology re my direct debit form I sent in for taking future payments. As they had taken over 6 months to reply to me the direct debit mandate was now void (banking regulations), so they have recorded that I shall receive future annual invoice of amount to be paid. I told the lady that I will submit a new direct debit mandate, which she recorded on my file - hopefully for a case worker to note to action it before 6 months run out. My second question to HMRC is, can I just send the direct debit part of the CF83 form? Or do I have to completely fill in a new one which might confuse the case worker as I have already completed one and which HMRC recognised (as they sent me the letters based from it) and from which they calculated that my arrears would be Class 2. Thanks.
Posted Sun, 25 Feb 2024 01:17:02 GMT by Moray Vincent
Hi, I finally got a response from HMRC in January 2024 after my letter of April 2023 (9 months, which by going through the comments on this site show that HMRC is reducing the backlog). However the response was not very satisfactory. Firstly, the response was not from my caseworker, but rather an administrative officer who gave me a whole new schedule of payments to make against Class 2 NI contributions. There was no acknowledgement I had made payment on 3rd April 2023 of the back contributions which were listed on the government gateway website. I am confused as to what contributions I need to make and what my estimated pension will be if I make those payments. I decided to make the back NI payments based on the ones listed on the government website and the estimated pension I would receive as outlined on the website. However the latest letter suggests I should make much lower Class 2 NI payments, but there is no mention of how this will increase my pension beyond its current level. How do you suggest I should proceed given I have already made the larger contributions back in 3rd April 2023? Is the information on the government website inaccurate or otherwise cannot be relied upon?
Posted Tue, 05 Mar 2024 15:08:09 GMT by HMRC Admin 19
Hi Keith,

To apply to pay voluntary National Insurance contributions whilst overseas, please complete and return our CF83 application form after reading our leaflet NI38 ‘Social Security Abroad’. You can find the CF83 here:  

Apply to pay voluntary National Insurance contributions when abroad (CF83)

Before applying to pay voluntary contributions you may wish to check with The Pension Service as to whether if it will be worthwhile for you to pay them. To check this please see here:

Check your State Pension forecast

Thnak you.
Posted Wed, 06 Mar 2024 06:37:44 GMT by Moray Vincent
Hi HMRC Admin 19, I note your reply to "Keith" as above on 5 March, which goes to my question posted on the 26 February. I effectively followed your instructions given to "Keith" which means clicking on the links you provided and accessing your personal data with a government gateway ID. However, where you get to (as you are no doubt aware) is an estimate of your pension if you do nothing, one if you make payments on an ongoing basis and one if you also make back payments. There is then a list of the back payments you need to make (and from these making some assumptions you can then estimate what future payments are likely to be) to increase your future pension. It then becomes a personal financial decision as to whether making these back payments now to get a larger pension is worth it. Please confirm if this is broadly correct? However, what has happened in my case is the response I got in January 2024 to my submitted CF83 was a completely different set of payments I needed to make from the ones listed for myself on your website (and no estimates of how this would affect my future pension). This throws into question whether the payments necessary to increase the pension on your website are correct or not (if they are possibly wrong for me, why would they not be possibly wrong for "Keith" or anyone else following your instructions given to "Keith" as above?). If the figures on your website are incorrect, it follows the basis on which you are asking people to make financial decisions may be unsound? What assurances can you give myself and anyone else reading this thread that the estimates on your website are correct and will not be seemingly contradicted in later correspondence sent in a reply to a completed CF83 submission? If they are (as is seemingly my situation) what are my revised pension estimates given none came with the correspondence sent? I would have thought it would be a dangerous assumption to assume I could get the pension benefits outlined on your website with a completely different set of contribution payments (as per the letter I received) from the ones listed for me on your website? Please can you clarify for me the integrity of the data accessed via the links you suggest and perhaps help me resolve the issue of my contradictory letter received? Also can you confirm after waiting 9 months for a reply, my case now gets dealt with rather than going to the back of the queue and waiting another 9 months for a reply?
Posted Wed, 06 Mar 2024 14:29:50 GMT by Keith
Hi Moray...the actual "Keith" here lol. I was disappointed to see that HMRC had put my name on that March 5th reply as it had nothing to do with my last comment in this thread (namely that the link they'd provided in their Feb 19th reply to Robert Gray doesn't take you to where they say it is going to). Unfortunately this forum is hit and miss with respect to the information supplied by HMRC...sometimes it is highly useful and accurate...and sometimes it is nonsense and completely unhelpful. Good luck with your attempts to get the answers to your very important questions...hopefully it gets resolved soon.
Posted Wed, 06 Mar 2024 23:12:50 GMT by Moray Vincent
Hi "Keith", Agree with your comments about the quality of information from HMRC being variable. Unfortunately, this is the one and only place I have found you can get timely responses from HMRC. There is no way of communicating by email with them and all comments around calling helplines seem horrendous (imagine being on hold on an international call from Australia throughout the Australian night / UK day). Essentially, I made a mis-judgement. I was so impressed you could access such relevant and personal information via the portal with a government gateway ID (and the security around it seemed equally impressive) that I had no idea that despite the impressive "front end" the "back end" had not changed and after paying monies almost a year ago no-one in HMRC can seemingly say "Yup that is the right amount of money you have paid, we have updated the information in the portal and this is how things are now looking for you pension-wise, the next stage is to set something up so you can pay NI contributions on an ongoing basis" or "Your calculations were not quite right, here are the right calculations and you owe us/we owe you GBP X" I too am a little disappointed HMRC put my name up as well as I started this thread under the user name "Sydney" as I am living in Sydney, Australia, but HMRC then switched to putting up my name.....however this is a minor point
Posted Thu, 07 Mar 2024 12:12:58 GMT by bahrain
Hi there, I have been approved to pay Voluntary Class 2 NI (whilst living and working abroad) and have received a breakdown of the shortfall years to pay. I still live and work abroad but wish to pay the shortfall from a UK bank account which I still have. Can you confirm that the correct account to pay it into is Account no: 12001004 Sort Code: 08-32-20? And please could you confirm if the 18 digit reference must include 'IC' if it is coming from a UK bank (but paying for Class 2 shortfall payment whilst still living abroad). Do I use my NI number + surname + initial or NI number + IC + my surname + initial? Many thanks
Posted Fri, 08 Mar 2024 12:56:51 GMT by HMRC Admin 20
Hi Graham Lees,
If your wise account is a bank account and supports the payment you can use that to make a payment to HMRC.
Alternatively, you can use an overseas account to make your payment, or you can send a payment by cheque.
Please see further information here - Pay voluntary Class 3 National Insurance 
Thank you.
Posted Wed, 13 Mar 2024 13:42:38 GMT by HMRC Admin 20
Hi Moray Vincent,
From the details that you’ve provided, it would appear that our International Team have quoted shortfalls of voluntary National Insurance contributions to you at the class 2 rate.  
The shortfalls quoted on PTAs are always at the voluntary class 3 rate.  
As the State Pension is based on qualifying tax years not the amount of money that you pay, the pension calculation on the PTA would be correct.  
Thank you.
Posted Wed, 13 Mar 2024 23:12:04 GMT by Moray Vincent
Hi HMRC Admin 20, Thank you for explanation above. It appears you are correct as the letter I received says "We've accepted your application to pay voluntary Class 2 NIC's by annual payment". This is despite my not making any such application but rather making the payments listed on your website (PTA = Personal Tax Account?) and sending in the CF83. Can you advise me as the best way to resolve this issue. I have already written back to PT Operations North East England saying the letter sent to me in January 2024 does not match my payments made nor the payment schedule on the HMRC website. I sent my letter FAO: the administrative officer who sent it. Should I write another letter explaining I want to pay voluntary Class 3 contributions inline with the figures on the HMRC website but the January 2024 letter I received (erroneously) gave me a Class 2 schedule to pay? Also should I address my letter FAO: the administrative officer who sent the letter in January 2024 or FAO: the caseworker who wrote to me in April 2023 and I thought was dealing with my issue but I have not heard from since or FAO anyone else? Thanks in advance for your help Best Moray
Posted Thu, 14 Mar 2024 09:26:23 GMT by HMRC Admin 19
Hi bull-jai,

We can confirm that the correct reference number to use for overseas customers is, your National Insurance number followed by IC, your surname and then your initial. 

With regards to your query about completing a new Direct Debit mandate, which is held within the CF83 application form, please complete your personal details, that is, name, address, date of birth, National Insurance number and the Direct Debit mandate. You do not need to complete the whole form, just enclose a covering letter to advise that you are completing the direct debit mandate to change your method of payment from annual payment to Direct Debit. Please ensure that the CF83 and the mandate are both signed and dated.

Thank you.

Posted Fri, 15 Mar 2024 04:45:48 GMT by Philip Paxton
Dear Admins On the page of your website entitled "Your UK National Insurance record" there is a message at the very top which has been there for a while now which says "Important You can soon use your Personal Tax Account to check if you can make voluntary National Insurance contributions, and pay using the online service." Please can you give an indication of: a) What "soon" means in the above Important statement ? b) Will the facility to pay include payments from people living overseas or just UK residents ... My UK State Pension becomes available to me in April this year, and I sent my UK State Pension Application to you in January 2024, which I know you have received because you sent me a message telling me not to contact you about my application, and my Birth Certificate has already made its way back to Australia ... However, I have been trying to find out from your since 2015 how much I need to pay in additional voluntary contributions to get my pension payment up to the maximum available to me. I have submitted the necessary form and in December 2022 received a letter asking for further information, which I replied to in January 2023, which according to my online account you received in March 2023 ... I did call in July 2023 and did eventually get through (after waiting for a couple sessions of a Test Match !!!) asking when I might get a reply I was told I could easily have to wait for another 12 months before getting a reply ... I assume that if I start to receive my UK State Pension from April 2024 that I will still be able able to make the voluntary contributions to increase the weekly payments up to the maximum amount available to me ?? I do hope you are able to clarify these issues for me ... Kind regards Philip Paxton
Posted Fri, 15 Mar 2024 17:13:03 GMT by HMRC Admin 20
Hi Moray Vincent,
When an individual is overseas they may pay voluntary National Insurance contributions at either the class 2 or class 3 rate.  Both these classes of voluntary contributions give you the same entitlement to the State Pension as The Pension Service look at how many tax years that are qualifying when they calculate pension entitlement rather than the amount of money actually paid.
The Personal Tax Account (PTA) always show shortfalls of voluntary contributions at the class 3 rate.  This is because not everyone may be able to pay the voluntary class 2 contributions.  If you have a letter from our International Team detailing the voluntary class 2 contributions then they have accessed your entitlement to pay at the cheaper voluntary class 2 rate.  If you wished to pay the class 2 contributions then you would use the letter rather than going off the amounts shown on the PTA.  But the pension details would still be correct.
Voluntary class 2 contributions, currently £3.45 a week, maintain an individuals National Insurance account for the State Pension and for claims to Employment & Support Allowance made in the United Kingdom.  Voluntary class 2 contributions may be paid overseas provided that the individual was normally employed or self-employed in the UK before their departure and are employed or self-employed overseas.
Voluntary class 3 contributions, currently £17.45 a week, maintain an individuals National Insurance account for the State Pension only and may be paid if they are not entitled to pay the cheaper voluntary class 2 contributions.
Our International Teams are currently dealing with queries received a year ago so, unfortunately, there will be a delay before you receive a reply.  However, you may wish to call our National Insurance Helpline to discuss voluntary contributions – their telephone number is 0300 200 3500 (from UK) or +44 191 2037010 (from overseas).
Thank you.

Posted Fri, 15 Mar 2024 22:32:54 GMT by Moray Vincent
Hi HMRC Admin 20, Thank you for your explanation above. I have already paid monies at the Class 3 rate (as shown on the website) and I wrote in my reply to the letter saying I only need to pay at the Class 2 rate that if this was the case, HMRC should simply take the monies out of monies I already paid in April 2023 and refund me the difference (to the bank account from which I originally paid the monies and whose details I included in my letter). To expedite the resolution of this matter, do you think this is sufficient (i.e. HMRC are able to follow these instructions, update my records on the website and refund me the difference between what I paid in April 2023 and what HMRC believes I owe) or do I need to do anything else? I'm just trying to move things forwards as I am sure it is extremely frustrating for all that the backlog is so large that it takes circa 9 months to get a reply to each letter sent so I am trying to truncate the process if possible Best Moray
Posted Wed, 20 Mar 2024 06:41:52 GMT by Steven Wong
Dear HMRC, Can you please confirm that I can transfer my NI contributions in arrears to the account HMRC NICO rather than HMRC NIC RECEIPTS? Both have the same sort code and account number. I was told by the ICW to pay my shortfall payments into the NIC RECEIPTS account but this does not appear on either my UK HSBC or First Direct payee options but HMRC NICO does. If the answer is "No they must go to the NIC RECEIPTS account" (even though NICO has the same account number), then how do I resolve this, given neither of the banks I have mentioned recognises this payee name? Thank You. 

Name removed admin .
Posted Wed, 20 Mar 2024 08:57:02 GMT by HMRC Admin 25
Hi bahrain,
We can confirm that the bank details that you quoted for us are correct.
The 18 Digit Reference Number that you would use as an overseas payer, whether a UK or overseas bank, would be National Insurance Number + IC + surname + initial.
If your surname is longer than the digits available then just as much of your surname as possible.
Thank you. 


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