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Posted Thu, 28 Jul 2022 11:26:23 GMT by Jacques Leclerc
What legal authority does HMRC have for making any estate register in TRS to obtain a UTR?
Posted Fri, 29 Jul 2022 13:47:48 GMT by
Hi Jacques Leclerc, 
Please refer to guidance at:
Trusts, Settlements and Estates Manual
Thank you
Posted Fri, 29 Jul 2022 13:55:24 GMT by Jacques Leclerc
Why would the answer be in here rather than TRSM. In fact it isn't in either. The 2017 Regs do not provide vires for HMRC registering estates so where is the authority?
Posted Mon, 01 Aug 2022 10:08:09 GMT by HMRC Admin 17

Hi,
 
The Trusts Registration Service (TRS) is a new online service that provides a single route for trustees and personal representatives of complex estates

to comply with their registration obligations under the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer)

Regulations 2017 (SI No. 2017/692), which came into force on 26 June 2017. 

The TRS replaces the paper 41G (Trust) form and the ad hoc process for trustees to notify HMRC of changes in their circumstances.

Trusts that are required to register with HMRC are now required to do so through the TRS.

Which trusts need to register on the TRS?

All UK express trusts where the trustees have incurred a tax liability in a given tax year; and

All non-UK express trusts which receive UK source income or have UK assets on which the trustees have incurred

a UK tax liability in a given tax year will need to register.

Thank you.                                    
Posted Mon, 01 Aug 2022 10:24:04 GMT by Jacques Leclerc
This is not a question about trusts it is a question about ESTATES. TRSM 27010:"TRS is used to register a complex estate in order to set up the required tax record and generate the required estate Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR) for self-assessment purposes. Estates are not required to register under the Money Laundering Regulations, instead this is for administrative purposes only and the information collected on registration reflects that." As the MLRs do not apply what is HMRC's legal authority for requiring an estate to register on TRS? HMRC cannot make things up however convenient
Posted Tue, 02 Aug 2022 09:49:56 GMT by HMRC Admin 17

Hi,
 
Please refer to Income Tax (Trading and Other Income) Act 2005 Chapter 6  .

Thank you.
Posted Tue, 02 Aug 2022 17:06:36 GMT by Jacques Leclerc
I presume you mean Part 5 Chapter 6. This is the charge to tax on Beneficiaries who receive estate income. It has absolutely nothing to do with a power for HMRC to register an estate on TRS. I resent these plainly inappropriate answers from an apparently official source. It is Misinformation.
Posted Wed, 03 Aug 2022 09:13:02 GMT by
Hi Jacques Leclerc,
Please refer to Taxes Management Act: 1970:
Taxes Management Act 1970
Should this fail to answer your query, please telephone the Trust and Estates office on 0300 123 1072. 
Thank-you.
 
Posted Wed, 03 Aug 2022 10:32:20 GMT by Jacques Leclerc
S54TMA is totally irrelevant. s74 refers to personal representatives but confirms that they act as alter ego of the deceased individual taxpayer. There is nothing in TMA that authorises estates to be registered on TRS. I will not be phoning Trusts and Estates as you suggest. I will be copying this conversation with its wholly inadequate over-simplistic and wrong answers and writing to HMRC as a concerned taxpayer about the issue itself and this sub-standard service.

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