SA1 no Nino

I have a client who has tried to obtain a UTR number through an on line SA1. This application has been rejected as she has no NiNo. She has no need to a Ni No as she has a right to remain in UK but dies not work in UK. Please advise how she can obtain a UTR Thank you

Hi,

We can set up the SA record and send a UTR to you if you are having issues registering online.  

Income Tax: general enquiries

You could also choose the paper version of SA1 and send to us by post.  

Thank you.

We submitted online SA1s for a couple of new clients on 5 October 2022 but have yet to receive a UTR. They are both foreign nationals, and don’t have UK NINos. This very late processing of SA registration requests for foreign nationals has been happening for a while now and of course that can cause issues with overseas revenue authorities, and difficulties because tax can’t be paid to get credit in the right year. Is HMRC aware of this being a continuing issue?

Hi Jill 

We have not been informed of any ongoing issue regarding this.

Thank you.

Can you please let me know how I get a UTR for these clients please? It seems I should have heard by now but I haven't.

Hi Jill Springbett
An SA1 can still be processed without a NINO.
If the client has not received a UTR you will need to send another.
Thankyou.

How do I and others know how long we have to wait before starting again please? And given it was sent online, it must be in the HMRC system somewhere. we don't want two UTRs issuing!

A further thught is that it is better, it seems, for us to send a paper form, as then if it goes missing all we need do is send a copy, not have to re-enter. This isn't as efficient for HMRC but it seems the only solution, given online forms are, it seems, able to be lost!

Hi
You are correct a paper form may be the best in these circumstances.
Thankyou.

It appears that this space is to "Post a reply", but because I desperately need an answer and I cannot see how or where to write my question, I'll write it here and hope for the best. For several weeks now I'been loosing sleep, trying to gather all the information I need (and my husband) to do a SA. Painfully and slowly 've found out that, because we are non residents, we need to a) register in form SA1 for Self Assessment , but I cannot download it, let alone fill it and send it or at least print it b) Request an SA100, an SA109 and a UTR number, non of which can apparently be done online or email, but writing somewhere and waiting, from what I read from other people's experiences, an indefinitely amount of time. This morning I rang the NRL tl. number to call from abroad and I spent 40 minutes, waiting a long time and the rest talking to somebody who confessed at the end that he could not help me. I was in tears. I'm 76 years old and I am really desperate, wasting my time, days and weeks, trying to do something that should be really easy. I intalled the HMRC app this morning and I nearly got the Gateway thing, until I was asked for my post code, which of course is not an UK one, and it all came to nothing. I can see the days and weeks flying by and I cannot progress. October will soon be here and I wan't be able to register in time. What then?. We don't even have any tax liability, as our Estate Agent has been withholding taxes and we still have more expenses to claim back and we are entitled to the personal tax allowance. I would gladly let go all that money we can claim back rather than waste my precious time in this way. But it is cumpulsory to file those SA tax returns or we'll be fined for not complying. I beg, I beg, for any human sole in that institution HMRC to take pity on so many people who must be desperate for being unable to fill and send tax return. Thank you for your pacience. 

Name removed Admin .

Good morning. I'll try to take easy, but really, what I want is to cry. Yesterday I rang the NRL numer for help in my quest for how to register for SA and get the UTR number plus the SA1 and SA100 forms before the 5th of october. But, in spite of the good will of the person I talked to, nothing came of it. So I got up at 5.00 am and started my circular pilgrim through all those texts, from link to link, getting more confused all the time. A good piece of news is that I came across a piece entitled "Disagree with a tax decision" with a list of reasonable excuses if you cannot pay your taxes on time. By about 9.00 a.m. I had decided on a strategy: I was going to ring that other number, the SA number, 03002003310 at 8.30 am UK. I did. But the service is closed until the 4th of July. What can I say?. I am left now with only one option: write to that address that I saw somewhere. I'm not sure is the right one to send my letter, but I'll try. This morning I had a conversation with the Chat Ask HMRC. I was in Self Assessment: chat. Completely useless. It just kept sending me back to those texts and links that I've already read a hundred times. When I answered that I had already read them and the ansser wasn't there, it kept telling me: " I do not understand your question", to which I replied: it's not a question, it's a plie for help!. Where are human hidden these days?

Hi Hestia, Since you mentioned “Estate agent” I assume you own UK property and have property income. For Self Assessment registration, if you can’t register on-line (require government gateway ID/password), I think you can fill in the SA1 form (fill in on-line, select non-UK address), print and post it back to HMRC from the following web link (copy it and paste it to your web browser) – https://public-online.hmrc.gov.uk/lc/content/xfaforms/profiles/forms.html?contentRoot=repository:///Applications/Test/1.0/SA1&template=SA1.xdp alternatively, you can register for Non Resident Landlord scheme (NRL) using NRL1 form (fill in on-line, print and post it back to HMRC). The NRL scheme would allow you to receive rental income in gross. You will then settle the tax bill with Self Assessment. Web link for NRL1 form (copy it and paste it to your web browser) – https://public-online.hmrc.gov.uk/lc/content/xfaforms/profiles/forms.html?contentRoot=repository:///Applications/BusinessTax_iForms/1.0/NRL1&template=NRL1.xdp Either way, once HMRC received your SA1 or NRL1, they will create a Self Assessment record and generate a UTR for you (the process may take a few weeks). Once you receive the UTR, you can file your tax return which consists of SA100, SA105 (property income), SA109 (non-UK residents) forms. Please note that non- UK resident can't submit tax return on-line via HMRC portal. The other option for on-line submission is to use commercial software but you must already have government gateway ID/password and have registered to file tax return on-line in order to use this option. The last option is to file paper tax return by post. If you choose to submit the tax return by post, the three forms are hosted on HMRC web site. You can download these forms (please see paragraph below regarding the printing of the SA100 form), print and fill it in by hand (you can do this now while waiting for the UTR). Web link for SA100 form and notes (copy it and paste it to your web browser) – https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/self-assessment-tax-return-sa100 Web link for SA105 and SA109 forms and notes (copy it and paste it to your web browser) - https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-return-forms On 6 April 2023, I was advised by HMRC that I should not download the SA100 form from HMRC web site as it is for reference only, I have to order a paper copy from HMRC. The dedicated form ordering phone number is +441619308331 (calling from outside UK). It may take a few weeks for you to receive the SA100 form by post. However, I am seeing conflicting messages in this forum recently, may be HMRC has changed their policy, please would you ask HMRC if you can download SA100 from their web site and use it for submission to HMRC. There is no such restriction for SA105 and SA109 forms. If you send your tax return back to HMRC as recorded delivery letter with your local Post Office then you can track the progress of the mail item from Royal Mail Track and Trace, however, this year Royal Mail tends to deliver mail item with no signature, so Track and Trace may not reflect the true status of the mail item. You may consider sending it back with courier (e.g DHL), the delivery address for courier is different – Web link for courier delivery address - https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/couriers Hope this helps !!

Well some good news, at last!. After my huge disappointment this morning I was looking for that address that I thought I had seen in the many pages I have printed, when I saw the one that says: Self Assment: forms ordering with the two telephone numbers, the second one for Outside UK: +44 1619308331. I had rung the wrong one!. I should have rung this one instead!. But surely this service would also be closed until the 4th of September?. With a shaking hand I pressed the mumbers in my mobile and they were there, they were not closed!!!!. I waited for nearly a quarter of an hour listesing alternatively to the music and the message thanking me for my patience, etc. I was reading again and again the very clear and concise sentences that I had written earlier, a style I'm developing to communicate in AI chats where the host cannot remember what you've or it has said three seconds earlier and takes any sentence you write as a question. Well, a lovely person came to the telephone at last, and I read my ordered and short questions: yes, that was what I needed, she was going to send me by post two SA100 and two SA105 (one for my husband, one for me) and the instructions to fill those forms. I kept asking, what about the SA1 and the UTR number? I half understood her answers because I am a bit deaf and used only to a particular accent of English, but with great effort I almost understood that she could not send me the SA1, that I could print it myself, fill it in and send it by ordinary post: that would be my application to register for Self Assessment. Then I would have to wait until I was sent the UTR number, and then I could fill in the SA100 that she was going to send me. But I cannot print the SA1: the first one is to fill in and send online, but I cannot access it because I could not complete my registration for the Gov. Gateway. The second one, the one that is to fill on line, then to print and then to send by ordinary post, that one, that link it doesn't even open!. I've tried a thousand times!. I wanted to cry again. And then this lovely person said something like the " extra suppor team for SA" and I half understood that my call was going to be transferred to a collegue, and I thanked this person sincerely for her help and patience with me, and after wating for a few moments another lovely person came to the telephone. At first there was some confusion because I had assumed that she would now all my case and my conversation with the other lady, but of course she didn't and I had to start from the beginning. It was more difficult because I think she could not understand my Spanish accent either, so there was a great deal of repetition but a lot of good will on her part. When she told me again that I coul fill in the SA1 on line, then print it and send it, I was adamant that I could not, that I had been there many times before and the link was dead would not open at all!. So, she went to ask, and while I was waiting, I took my husband's iPad, which is rather new, and searched for that link, clicked, and lo and behold! There it was, on the screen, the elusive AS1, wating to be filled in and sent!. When the lady came back and I told her she was really happy, I could feel. So, it was a technical problem after all: I had been doing all my search from a computer (Windows 10), and from my mobile and my Lesovo tablet both Android. I sent me the open SA1 by email, to see if I could fill it in from the computer but when I opened the email there was only the link. To my surprise it worked this time, and now it's all ready for the post. My reflexion on all this it's that it may be all very well and cheaper por companies, institutions, etc to put all the information not always well ordered, with those silly links that send you again and again to the starting point, But for society as a whole, this lack of the human element is a huge waste. I have spent so many hours, reading here and there, and there and here again and again. If only somebody had told me at the beginning in a short paragraph or a short telephone conversation about self assessment registration, Sa1 and UTR number; SA 100, etc One shoul be told from the beginning of the importance of having a NI number and UK postal code (but then if one is not a British citizen and live in another country, why should one have those things?. If you don't have them life will be much more difficult to you if you have to deal with Gov UK, because you'll not be able to get the magic key, the Gov. Gateway, that wi'll allow you to interact with it electronically, downloding forms, sending them on line, etc. Knowing this from the beginning will prepare you for the long journey and delays, and save you time not trying to get the Gov. Gateway if you do not have a UK postal code, that only comes to the very end, when you have got all those ID, codes, pssswords, pins, etc. Disapointment and frustration all around. Rigth now I'm hopeful that our UTR numbers and the forms will arrive soon enough to send our SA on time. .

Hi Wingsham, Thank you for your long post, that was really very kind of you. As you may have seen, I've already made some progress. I'm now wating for forms SA100 and 105 that the first lady I talked to said she was sending me; I have completed the SA1 on line and then printed it and I've spent today thinking how to send it, if by ordinary post or by courrier, and which courrier. Finally I have printed the SA109 and I'll be able to fill it in when I get the UTR number in a month or two I hope. Funnily enough this one, the SA109, cannot be completed on line (at least I've not been able to), but I was allowed to print it, and it looks OK. I'll have to fill it in by hand, as nobody has a typewriying machine nowadays. I hope that will be alright. So each form has its own way of being obtained and completed but the four of them (SA1, SA100, SA105 and SA109) have to be sent by traditional post in a case like mine (I'm saying this for the benefit of any other person who may read it). And all because I cannot get a Gov. Gateway as I've explained in my previous posts. Oh, well! I'm giving serious thought now to the way I'm going to send the SA1 tomorrow without further delay. I've had some bad experiences in the past with registered post, and I have some confusion as to weather the SA1 can be sent to the HMRC, NIC&EO, BX9 1NA, which is the address indicated in the proper SA1 (it can be seen only once printed). I say I'm confused becsuse I read this in Gov.Uk : Courier deliveries to HMRC: PO box and BX postcodes Post Couriers should use this address for all post items being delivered to a: - postcode beginning with BX5 or BX9 - PO box - HMRC site that does not accept post If you need a recipient phone number use 03002003300 HM Revenue abd Customs BP8002 Benton Park View Newcastle Upon Tyne NE98 1ZZ What does that mean?. That if I send my AS1 by courrier to the BX9 address the form tells me, the Courrier will have to deliver it somewhere else?. It's all very strange. And very inefficient. Well, thanks again, Wingsham and to all of those who write here and help others while looking for solutions for themselves.

Further to my issue above. As advised, we have reapplied, online for our clients without NiNos, with my colleague logging in using her normal SA login, and giving her email address. That was on 8 June. We have just chased, and have been told that without a 15 character reference the officer could not help any further. He recommended resubmitting the forms as they should have been dealt with by now... But we *never* get any reference when sending an online SA1. It just disappears and we assume it's been sent to HMRC. Can the procedure please be set out clearly? Do we have to re-submit again?

Hi Hestia, You should be able to download SA105 (and the notes) from the HMRC web site similar to the way that you download the SA109. You can then print it and fill it in by hand. You can't use courier if the delivery address has BX9 postcode, this because BX9 is a special HMRC mailbox with no physical address so the courier would have nowhere to deliver it to. You can send it as registered post with your local national post office, the mail item will hand over to Royal mail, you can then check the progress of the mail item from Royal Mail Track and Trace web site, however, this year Royal Mail tends to deliver mail item with no signature, so you still can't confirm if HMRC had received it or not. You may have to contact HMRC to confirm they have received your SA1. If you send it by courier, you are correct to use the Newcastle address as deliver address but I am not sure about the HMRC department (the first 2 lines of the address), the postcode should be OK. From experience, if you send it with DHL, you will have confirmation (with signature) that your mail item has been delivered. May be you should contact HMRC again for the complete Newcastle address if you choose the courier option either by phone (that extra support) or the web chat service that you try before, this time keep enter "speak to an advisor" hopefully you will get through to a human advisor. Alternatively, you can ask HMRC admin of this forum for the complete Newcastle address if send by courier. Anyway, I won't be surprise if you receive the UTR in August as it takes time to process the SA1 form and takes time to deliver letter from UK to oversea. Anyway if you can prepare the SA105,SA109 while you are waiting for UTR, you should be able to meet the deadline (SA100 is relatively simple).

Thank you, Wingsham, those are very useful pieces of advice. I'll have the S105/09 ready for when the SA100 (and SA105 which the first lady a talked to promised) arrive. I sent the two SA1 yesterday in diferent envelopes with the address given in the SA forms inside a larger one to a daughter who lives in the UK, by ordinay post. This works usually very well, much better than tegistered post and at least I'll know that they have arrived on the UK. When .y daughter recieves them she will take the two envelopes to a post office and send them to the BX9 addres. At the end I decided that was the safest way. My new worry now is this: we live in a small village where there are many houses closed. The usual postman goes on holiday in summer and his substitute makes mistakes. Last year we missed a hospital appointrmebt

Oops! It's gone!. I was saying, last year we lost a hospital appointement because of one of those mistakes. I'll have to prevent that from happening. And yes, I'm prepared for the long wait for the UTR number: the secon lady I spoke to (extra support team) told me processing will start a month after they recieve our SA1s. But there are still nearly three months before the 5th of October. So, let's hope. I would like to report that last night I slept well for the first time in many weeks. Being someone wit a nervous disposition these things affect me very disproportionately, I'm affraid!. Thanks again, Wigsham.

Hi Hestia,

If you are unable to register online and print off the SA1, if you contact our Income Tax department we can start the process of registering you for Self Assessment
Income Tax: general enquiries

Thank you.

Hi Hestia, Sounds good to me. Advice from Admin20 also sounds good. Looks like you have two choices - (1) Carry on to post the SA1 and if not receive UTR by end of August, call the number given by Admin20 to register on the phone. (2) Ask your daughter hold on to the SA1 and call the number given by Admin20 now, if register successfully then ask your daughter not to post the SA1.