Hi , Agreed, posting SA1 may be the best way in this case but if you don' t receive any UTR by September you may have to try to make the call. Very strange that they don't issue you the UTR when you register for the NRL scheme and yet they approved your application !! I am pretty sure that as European citizens you are entitled to UK Personal allowance but I understand that you will have to claim it by filling in SA109 (box 16). If you fill in SA109 you may need to fill in SA100 as well and send them both to HMRC. In your case it would be SA100, SA105, SA109 with property income. Anyway, the deadline for submitting paper tax return is 31 October 2023.
Name removed admin.
Sorry I should not say "i.e they will issue the UTR on the phone". I believe if you can get through they can take your details and start the process and mail you the UTR.
If you can't get through you can carry on to ask your daughter to post the SA1.
Later on when you submit the SA100, you should ask your daughter to post it as registered letter and keep the receipt from the Post Office as it would be an evidence that you have submitted the tax return.
In the long run, maybe you can look into "Double-Taxation Agreement between UK and the country that you live in". I understand (not 100% sure) this allows you to be exempted from UK tax (Self Assessment) for UK income but to pay the tax in the country that you live in instead. You may need a local accountant for the advice as it is too complicated to apply for this yourself.
I believe Admin20 suggested you can register for Self Assessment on the phone (you learn something new everyday) i.e they can issue the UTR to you on the phone.
If you daughter has not received the SA1 yet, why don't you give them a call (number suggested by Admin20), there is nothing to lose.
If you manage to register by the phone then you must ask your daughter not to post the SA1, you don't want to end up with 2 UTR. I heard there are a lot of trouble to cancel the second one.
Sounds good to me.
Advice from Admin20 also sounds good. Looks like you have two choices -
(1) Carry on to post the SA1 and if not receive UTR by end of August, call the number given by Admin20 to register on the phone.
(2) Ask your daughter hold on to the SA1 and call the number given by Admin20 now, if register successfully then ask your daughter not to post the SA1.
You should be able to download SA105 (and the notes) from the HMRC web site similar to the way that you download the SA109. You can then print it and fill it in by hand.
You can't use courier if the delivery address has BX9 postcode, this because BX9 is a special HMRC mailbox with no physical address so the courier would have nowhere to deliver it to.
You can send it as registered post with your local national post office, the mail item will hand over to Royal mail, you can then check the progress of the mail item from Royal Mail Track and Trace web site, however, this year Royal Mail tends to deliver mail item with no signature, so you still can't confirm if HMRC had received it or not. You may have to contact HMRC to confirm they have received your SA1.
If you send it by courier, you are correct to use the Newcastle address as deliver address but I am not sure about the HMRC department (the first 2 lines of the address), the postcode should be OK. From experience, if you send it with DHL, you will have confirmation (with signature) that your mail item has been delivered.
May be you should contact HMRC again for the complete Newcastle address if you choose the courier option either by phone (that extra support) or the web chat service that you try before, this time keep enter "speak to an advisor" hopefully you will get through to a human advisor. Alternatively, you can ask HMRC admin of this forum for the complete Newcastle address if send by courier.
Anyway, I won't be surprise if you receive the UTR in August as it takes time to process the SA1 form and takes time to deliver letter from UK to oversea. Anyway if you can prepare the SA105,SA109 while you are waiting for UTR, you should be able to meet the deadline (SA100 is relatively simple).
Since you mentioned “Estate agent” I assume you own UK property and have property income.
For Self Assessment registration, if you can’t register on-line (require government gateway ID/password), I think you can fill in the SA1 form (fill in on-line, select non-UK address), print and post it back to HMRC from the following web link (copy it and paste it to your web browser) –
alternatively, you can register for Non Resident Landlord scheme (NRL) using NRL1 form (fill in on-line, print and post it back to HMRC). The NRL scheme would allow you to receive rental income in gross. You will then settle the tax bill with Self Assessment. Web link for NRL1 form (copy it and paste it to your web browser) –
Either way, once HMRC received your SA1 or NRL1, they will create a Self Assessment record and generate a UTR for you (the process may take a few weeks).
Once you receive the UTR, you can file your tax return which consists of SA100, SA105 (property income), SA109 (non-UK residents) forms. Please note that non- UK resident can't submit tax return on-line via HMRC portal. The other option for on-line submission is to use commercial software but you must already have government gateway ID/password and have registered to file tax return on-line in order to use this option. The last option is to file paper tax return by post.
If you choose to submit the tax return by post, the three forms are hosted on HMRC web site. You can download these forms (please see paragraph below regarding the printing of the SA100 form), print and fill it in by hand (you can do this now while waiting for the UTR).
Web link for SA100 form and notes (copy it and paste it to your web browser) –
Web link for SA105 and SA109 forms and notes (copy it and paste it to your web browser) -
On 6 April 2023, I was advised by HMRC that I should not download the SA100 form from HMRC web site as it is for reference only, I have to order a paper copy from HMRC. The dedicated form ordering phone number is +441619308331 (calling from outside UK). It may take a few weeks for you to receive the SA100 form by post. However, I am seeing conflicting messages in this forum recently, may be HMRC has changed their policy, please would you ask HMRC if you can download SA100 from their web site and use it for submission to HMRC. There is no such restriction for SA105 and SA109 forms.
If you send your tax return back to HMRC as recorded delivery letter with your local Post Office then you can track the progress of the mail item from Royal Mail Track and Trace, however, this year Royal Mail tends to deliver mail item with no signature, so Track and Trace may not reflect the true status of the mail item. You may consider sending it back with courier (e.g DHL), the delivery address for courier is different –
Web link for courier delivery address -
Hope this helps !!
Hi Keith CK,
I understand the alternative is that if you register for Non Resident Landlord scheme (NRL) then HMRC will create a Self Assessment record and generate a UTR for you, you don't have to submit SA1. The NRL scheme would allow you to receive rental income in gross. You will then settle the tax bill with Self Assessment.
Link for NRL1 form -
My understanding is - If previous tax year tax bill is more than 1000 pounds, you will have to make TWO payments for current tax year tax bill in advance (deadline for first payment is 31 Jan before end of current tax year, deadline for second payment is 31 July after end of current tax year), the amount you pay for each payment is half the tax bill of previous tax year. You may have to make a THIRD balancing payment if you still owe tax after the two payments in advance. It is better to look at the example (link below) in order to understand how this works -
I am not sure you can, HMRC admin will advise you on this.
Part of the gateway registration process would require you to "verify identity" by answering security questions based on the information from your UK passport, UK driving licence, UK credit card, P60, previous self assessment etc. You can choose two items from the list but if you don't have these documents, it is unlikely you will get any further with the process.
Finally, assume you manage to obtain the gateway ID/password and already registered for self assessment, there is still one more registration to do - register to file tax return on-line.
I have on-line tax account so I can login via government gateway to see if HMRC had received my tax return or not.
If you have not got on-line tax account, I think you can try the on-line service "Digital Assistant" (link below). I have not used this service before so can't comment on how easy to connect to an agent if the assistant unable to answer your question (if you do get through to the agent, may be you can also ask if you are allowed to send photocopies of the original).
I have confirmation from this forum and spoken to HMRC agent that you are OK to submit the tax return (same year) twice, provides they are identical. If HMRC received both returns, they would ignore the second one.
I am not sure the second copy can be just photocopies of the original. If possible I would fill in a second copy with signature and new date.
HMRC - Please advise if I have to submit the tax return (same tax year) again, can I use photocopies of the original?