HMRC1234

HMRC ADMIN, I think the reply regarding the cost of fuel for business journeys was meant for someone else's question...

Hi Admin32, thanks for the reply. Like you say, I am not a tax resident. I live and work in Asia, but... I left the UK at the end of 2021 and still come to the UK, so I am trying to ensure I stay as a non-resident for tax purposes. As with anything on HMRCs website, IMHO, unless you work for HMRC or are good at reading legalese, then it is very difficult to interpret a lot of definitions and tax laws... While most of the world still had covid restrictions (2021-2022 tax year), I became quite ill whilst on a visit to the UK (with covid) and became trapped in the UK. With COVID19 travel rules in many countries around the world, apart from being too ill to travel, I was unable to leave the UK, as I could not use public transport AND many countries and airlines still had negative COVID19 test requirements in order to 1. be allowed to board transport and 2. to be allowed to enter the country. So it was a clear case, that my circumstances were exceptional. HMRC have agreed with my circumstances. So my questions regarding the 90 day tie, were because I am approaching 90 days in the previous 2 tax years (if counting days for exceptional circumstances). I wanted to know If exceptional circumstances are definitely excluded from this 90 day tie, which a previous reply from HMRC Admin confirmed. This is important to my case, as I needed to know how many days I have available to stay in the UK for the rest of the 2023-2024 tax year. I am trying to leave the 90 day tie for the upcoming tax year (2023-2024) and therefore trying to stay at 90 days/midnights or below, so as I mentioned above, my questions were so I could ascertain how many midnights I had left remaining (do I count the days due exceptional circumstance or not...). If I interpret your colleagues reply and RDRM11570 correctly, the question has been answered and I DO NOT need to count days/midnights due to exceptional circumstances. However... Admin32, as you mention, I am non-resident and employed abroad, but I was under the impression that I still needed to file a personal UK tax return, as I have rental property in the UK. However... the taxable income is under 1000gbp (due FORM17 Beneficial interest). I have just spoken to HMRC by phone today and I was advised, that because my taxable income will be less than 1000gbp, that I DO NOT need to file a UK tax return. Other than the rental income mentioned above, I have no other UK income. Can you please confirm that the HMRC advice that I received by phone (mentioned in the paragraph above) is indeed correct and I DO NOT need to file a UK tax return (provided my rental or any other income stay below this level, 1000gbp)? Thanks

Coisty79, I am discussing the 90 day tie, which I think, is different from the 90 days you are discussing. The 90 day issue I am discussing is the 90 day tie, which in itself is an HMRC tie. See the HMRC website re days in UK, ties etc, as everyones circumstances are different, the amount of time one can spend in the UK and if you have to submit a tax return, varies on an individual basis.

Thanks Admin20 for your reply. That answers my question, that exceptional circumstances are excluded from the 90 day tie. HMRC had already agreed that my circumstances were exceptional, but only said that they would note this next to my detail in HMRCs system. As mentioned above, I have the audio transcription of the conversation (provided by HMRC) and HMRC have sent me a copy of what was written in their system. HMRCs notes state; as well as the details for the reason or my exceptional circumstances , "Tech confirmed that this will not have an impact as exceptional circ". I have also filed my tax return with the days in UK and referenced dates due exceptional circumstances. Other than the above, I have not been able to obtain anything in writing from HMRC stating that they agree that my case was due to exceptional circumstances. What concerns me, although I have had advice from HMRC stating my case is exceptional, what is stopping whoever is assessing my tax return from disagreeing with this and overriding the previous decision/advice by HMRCs technician ?

Hi, Yes, I have established with HMRC (by phone) that I had exceptional circumstances and could not travel due illness. This has been noted on my file and I have a recording of the phone call provided to me by HMRC (via a data access request). So all I want to know is, are these days (in the UK due to exceptional circumstances) counted towards the 90 day tie. I asked if exceptional circumstances were excluded from the 90 day tie (two posts above) and Admin25 has stated that these days do count towards the 90 day tie, as I was still in the UK. This reply, seems to be in conflict with the information on your website; rdm13220, which I have referenced in my previous question. The answer above from Admin32, states that days due to exceptional circumstances can be ignored, but the reply does not specifically state if they are excluded from the 90 day tie. Can I please have an answer which is specific to my question.

Hi, With regards to days classed as 'exceptional circumstance' , if they are considered as 'included' towards the 90 day time, what else are they counted for? And importantly, what don't these days (days classed 'exceptional circumstances') count towards? https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm13220 This page states; "The following parts of the SRT allow for days attributable to exceptional circumstances to be discounted:" Underneath this statement, it lists several items, and also this line below, regarding the 90 day tie; "90 day tie (RDRM11570) – an individual spends more than 90 days in the UK in the previous tax year, or the one before that" To me, that states that days attributable to exceptional circumstances are discounted (or can be ignored) from days which count towards the 90 day tie. Am I missing something here, or am I interpreting this incorrectly?

Hi, I have read that page already. Other than transiting the UK, I dont spend part days (without being present at the end of the day) in the UK, so I am confused as to why I keep getting referred to the page about The Deeming Rule. Is there any reason I am being referred to this page. Is my interpretation above not correct? If so, please can you explain, thanks.

Do days in the UK classed as 'for exceptional circumstances' count towards this 90 day tie?

Okay, so one only needs to consider deeming days, if they spend more than 30 days in the UK where they are only there for the day, and not in the UK at midnight (without being present at the end of the day). For those of us, like myself, who spend whole days (& the night beyond midnight) in the UK (present at the end of the day), these days are not counted & I only need to consider the higher amount of days in the table, in this case with 3 ties, it would be 90 days. Are transit days, where I am transiting the UK enroute to another foreign destination (EU, USA etc) counted towards 'Deeming Days'? I read somewhere that a transit day does not count towards days in the UK and the example given on the HMRC site showed the person spending the evening at an airport hotel between flights. Can I confirm that this is the case and what is the maximum amount of time in transit that HMRC considers reasonable? Also... say there are issues at LHR and I need to change travel plans and head to another airport or St Pancras (for the eurostar), would this be considered acceptable and count as a transit vs a day in the UK (with or without being present at the end of the day)?

Thanks for the reply, If I come to the UK, I only spend midnights in the UK and never spend a day in the UK without being there at midnight. On a rare occasion I transit LHR for a few hours (when on connecting flights to the EU), therefore I don't think I need to consider calculating days in the UK using deeming rules. Also, I do not work in the UK, but live and work in Asia. As you can see below, my questions are quite long, but short question is, I want to know how I can calculate how many days I can spend in the UK using these table and I find it confusing where it states 46-90... Assuming one wants to remain a UK non-tax resident and are trying to calculate how many days (midnights) they can spend in the UK and still remain UK non-resident; First question... What is the impact on using Table A (& B) if the 3rd overseas test is met? How do I calculate maximum days allowed (to remain non-resident) in the UK when considering UK ties? Is there another table I should be using? Can you please use 3 ties in any explanation. 2nd question... "At least 3" does this mean someone has 3 ties? 3rd question... When looking at table A, how do I interpret where it states 46-90 days? The HMRC reply above mentions that the lower figure is used when Deeming Rules are applied, how do I interpret this if not applying Deeming Rules to days in the UK calculation? Also, how is one impacted if an overseas test has been met? And can you please provide an example of when one would use the higher figure of 90 days? Given the table is written with 46-90, it makes in confusing to determine how many days are allowed (to remain a UK non-resident) 4th question... I read the link HMRC provided above, regarding the deeming rule. I would like to confirm that the deeming rule, requires all 3 points to be met, in order for the deeming rule to apply? The 3 points I refer to are; "The deeming rule will apply to an individual for a tax year if they have: *been UK resident in 1 or more of the 3 previous tax years *at least 3 UK ties (see RDRM11510 onwards) for the tax year *been present in the UK on more than 30 days without being present at the end of the day, (known as a ‘qualifying day’) in the tax year" One of the examples (Benedict in example 2) is a little confusing and when calculating a 90 day tie, I am wondering if it has been written correctly? HMRCs example below. "In 2016-2017 he is in the UK on 50 days when he is not present at the end of the day, and 85 days at midnight. Benedict meets 2 of the deeming rules conditions and needs to determine if he has 3 ties in 2016-2107, to see whether the deeming rules apply to him. For the purposes of this example assume he has 2 other ties and only the 90 day tie can bring his total to 3. When considering whether he has a 90 day tie for 2016-2017, Benedict will need to look back to 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 tax years: in 2015-2016 he was in the UK at the end of the day on 80 days and on another 45 days he left the UK before the end of the day in 2014-2015 he was in the UK at the end of the day on 70 days and on another 39 days he left the UK before the end of the day For the purposes of the deeming rule only the days Benedict was in the UK at the end of the day are taken into account, so in this case he does not have a 90 day tie for 2016-2017." It states that in the previous 2 years, 2014-2015 & 2015-2016, that Benedict has spent a total of 150 days in the UK (80 in 2015-2016 & 70 in 2014-2015 at the end of the day). Isn't this greater than 90 days? Therefore shouldn't Benedict have a 90 day/3rd tie for this example? If not, can you please explain. If I am correct, the other days mentioned, 45 & 39 days (which are