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Posted Tue, 25 Jul 2023 23:27:28 GMT by KuenHK
Hi Sir/Madam, On behalf of my parents, I would like to ask if they are already over state age and plan not to get jobs anymore, and so they have no NI number at all to apply for HMRC apps in which NI number is essential for the application of such apps account. Alternatively, they should apply for Government Gateway ID prior to making a request for self-assessment tax return (SA1). However, they have no UK passport which is an essential identity document for registering the Government Gateway ID. In fact, they have only the other nationality passport (i.e. HKSAR passport) when entering to UK. As such, please advise how they apply for respective UTR number and submit their self assessment tax return (SA1) accordingly if their foreign incomes are more than GBP 2,000 of dividend allowance. Thank you.
Posted Wed, 02 Aug 2023 15:16:14 GMT by HMRC Admin 20
Hi KuenHK,

They would need to complete the fill in, print and post form Register for Self Assessment

Thank you.
Posted Wed, 02 Aug 2023 17:37:09 GMT by KuenHK
Thank you for HMRC's advice. My parents yesterday sent the paper form of SA1 requesting the registration of self assessment. I would like to know, in general, how long my parents will receive the post from HMRC providing their UTR number for their completion of self assessment tax return with split-year treatment applied. Secondly, upon receiving the UTR number later, I wonder if they could submit their self assessment tax return (SA100) online via either HRMC online service or the recognised commercial software. Or, they must submit paper form of SA100 as their return because their application for SA1 is in paper form. In case it is true for the above, may I ask if HMRC will automatically send the paper form of SA100 together with the letter of UTR number by the post to them for their completion and return? Please confirm or advise. Thank you.
Posted Mon, 07 Aug 2023 17:27:16 GMT by KuenHK
Hi, While waiting for HMRC's furthe advice on my above concern, I have another query as below. Yesterday, I tried to download HMRC apps into my parents' mobile phone so that they can check their personal tax account later once HMRC creates their tax record and issues them their UTR numbers. However, they both CANNOT pass the part of Identity Check after giving the Government Gateway ID because the system said "there is no match record" for them (hint: they have no NI number for checking). There are only 5 attempts for proving their identity. I already tried twice, but in vain, and so I gave up finally. Regarding the above situation, I would like to ask:- 1) if my parents could register and check their personal tax account online (e.g. via HMRC app) after HMRC creates their tax record upon SA1 form is received by HMRC. 2) when they receive the post letter with UTR number for self-assessment, could they continue to complete the identity check for Government Gateway, otherwise they are NOT able to use HMRC apps or HMRC online service for checking personal tax account and making any changes on personal information when needed. Besides, if they want to use the 3rd commercial software to submit SA100 tax return, their Government Gateway ID is one of the essential elements to proceed at the tax return form. I am much looking forward to receiving HMRC's reply for my above 2 queries/concerns. Thank you.
Posted Tue, 08 Aug 2023 13:39:07 GMT by HMRC Admin 32

The current timescale for processing the forms is 4 weeks. You can register for an online account and online filing even if you registered by paper SA1 form. If a paper SA100 is required they will need to request this by contacting our Self Assessment team once they have received the UTR.

Self Assessment: general enquiries

Thank you.
Posted Tue, 08 Aug 2023 23:29:54 GMT by KuenHK
Thank you for HMRC's reply. It is understood that my parents need to wait for their UTR by 4 weeks. We will keep patience while waiting. But, in the meanwhile, I would like to confirm for the formality of self assessment tax return filing as below: 1) Once my parents receive their UTR (= their personal tax records are created by HMRC), they can then register and check their tax account via HMRC apps or HMRC online service (by login with Government Gateway ID), and then, 2) They can complete and submit SA100 filing via either HMRC online service or the 3rd commercial software. If my above assumption is correct, may I ask when and how my parents could go through (= pass) the identity check for getting Government Gateway ID prior to access to their personal tax account. At this moment, they could NOT login to HMRC apps and HMRC online service due to the incomplete process of creating "verified" Government Gateway ID. The system needs to verify their identity first before granting them with Government Gateway ID for access to HMRC apps. But, the actual problem is the HMRC system does NOT have any match records for my parents because my parents never have any records and NI number at HMRC for the system to check against their identity as required. Regarding my above concern/problem, I wonder if HMRC creates their self assessment tax record manually, my parents could then pass the identity check to obtain their Government Gateway ID, isn't it? Please reply. Thank you.
Posted Fri, 11 Aug 2023 10:59:54 GMT by HMRC Admin 10
You can try again to setup the online account after the UTR has been generated however this wouldn't guarantee they would be able to pass the verification.
If they are still unable to pass the verification they will need to request a paper SA100 from HMRC.
Posted Fri, 11 Aug 2023 12:56:12 GMT by KuenHK
Hi, Thank you for HMRC's reply as above. I used "Ask HMRC online" to check for the expected reply from HMRC regarding my parents' registration for self assessment (SA1) via post. Based on the post date of the forms to HMRC, the expected date for HMRC's reply will be 31 August 2023. But, I think it is only a system's automatical reply under regular timescale, there is actually NO ONE to check or confirm whether HMRC really receives my post. In case if HMRC really doesn't receive my post of the forms, then it will cause me to waste the 4-week time for waiting in vain. In this regard, I would like to know how I could ensure HMRC get the paper forms even I posted them at 1st class registered mail (hint: no updated tracking available from royal mail service because there is NO HMRC staff to sign on while delivery). Also, as mentioned previously, my parents are unable to use HMRC online service to check if their UTR numbers are ready in their personal tax account because they could not login to the related online service with Government Gateway ID before passing their identity check for that ID set-up. Regarding the above problems, please advise the possible solution, help or other facilitation to lessen our stress and worries while handling any self assessment reporting matters. Secondly, if worst that my parents could not pass the identity check to obtain their Government Gateway ID, they need to submit the paper form of SA100 tax return. Then, it implies that more additional time has to be reserved to ask for the paper form from HMRC and reserve another much time to wait for the delivery of paper SA100 to my house, and then reserve again another time for completion of paper SA100 and its post delivery to HMRC on or before 31 October 2023. I am much afraid there is not much time left for completion of all above processings if HMRC doesn't receive my post of paper SA1 on 31 July 2023. It is why, from the begining of this post message, I am much concerning about whether HMRC receives my post of SA1 form on 31 July 2023. Please help and advise for the concerned above. Thank you.
Posted Tue, 15 Aug 2023 12:23:41 GMT by HMRC Admin 10
You can try and register again when they receive the UTR.
They will only be able to file online and use commercial software if they can pass the verification questions.
If they can't a paper return will be required.
Posted Wed, 16 Aug 2023 10:48:49 GMT by HMRC Admin 10
For the SA filing, they will be provided with 3 months and 7 days to file from when the SA record is created.
Which would be after the 31/10/2023 deadline.
We can't take details to trace the receipt of the post until after the expected timescales have passed.
Posted Fri, 01 Sep 2023 22:54:43 GMT by KuenHK
Thank you for HMRC Admin 10's reply as above. I would like to update that the UTR numbers of my parents are received by today. They tried to create the Government Gateway (GG) ID for online access to personal tax account, but still unsuccessful to pass through the identity check for getting that GG ID. So, paper form of self assessment tax return will be an ultimate method for tax return submission to HMRC by 31/10/2023. Regarding the above mailing method, I would like to have the following queries for your advice: 1) as my parents are NOT able to access to their personal tax accounts via any HMRC online service or HMRC apps to check for any tax-related updates and status, how could they know about the final amount of income tax for their payment action by 31/1/2024, after the delivery of the completed paper forms of tax return (SA100) and other supplementary pages? 2) how long do they get the payment notice letter (reply) from HMRC if have? 3) could they ask for any tax calculation summary for their information (record) after HMRC received and handled their tax return? 4) from the above bad experience of unavailability of GG ID, may I confirm if my parents ought to submit the paper form of self assessment tax return for each tax year unless they could access to their personal tax account online with the GG ID? (But it is hopeless at all because it is confirmed that the application for NI number to the people already over state pension age is not accepted by the related authority.) Sorry for having the above queries. I am looking forward to receiving your feedback/advice. Thank you.
Posted Wed, 06 Sep 2023 14:10:32 GMT by HMRC Admin 10
If they are unable to pass the verification for online you are correct that a paper return would need to be filed.
This would be the same process each year.
When the paper returns are received and processed by HMRC we would send them a tax calculation by post advising of any amount due ahead of the January payment date.
Posted Wed, 06 Sep 2023 22:41:26 GMT by KuenHK
Thank you for HMRC's information. I would like to know how long my parents will receive their tax calculation letter from HMRC by post once HMRC receives their paper return. In case if there is a missing of that letter due to delivery error and so my parents do not receive the letter and do not make the required payment by 31 Jan 2024, is there any penalty imposed to them? If YES, could they make an appeal to HMRC? Secondly, as paper return is required for each tax year, how can they retrieve (ask for) their personal tax-related matters and tax payment history for personal retention or other purposes? Please provide your expert advice for my above concerns. Thank you.
Posted Tue, 12 Sep 2023 15:54:11 GMT by HMRC Admin 10
There would be interest on any late payment and a late payment penalty if the bill has been paid 30 days after the due date.
If a penalty is applied they will receive a written notice which will also advice regarding making an appeal.
If they require any information from HMRC they would need to contact our Self Assessment department.
Self Assessment: general enquiries

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