Moray Vincent

Hi, I filled in my second CF83 in April 2024 and received a letter from HMRC on 24 July 2024 saying my national insurance record had been updated for all years from 2006 to 2024, the funds taken from the monies I paid in April 2023 and the balance returned to me. I have checked the calculations in the letter sent and the balances seem to be correct. However, when I look at my contributions on the website, it says all years from 2006 to 2010 have been filled, there is then a gap of 6 years unfilled contributions from 2011 to 2016 and then all years have been filled since then. This is in contradiction to the 24 July 2024 letter sent to me. Can you advise whether it is normal for HMRC to update some years on the website and then go back later and update other years (which would seem strange behaviour)? Can you advise me of the best way to ensure the website is updated and if your advice is for me to wait longer to see if the website is updated, how much longer do you advise me to wait? best Moray

Hi HMRC 20, Just a short message to say your last two responses above have been very helpful to me (and hopefully to others reading this forum). Thank you again for the information given. Best, Moray

Hi HMRC, Can you advise on the points I raised in my post of 2.5 weeks ago namely: 1. Do you think it would be of benefit to write another letter clarifying the situation? 2. If so to whom should I address it 3. Is correspondence sent to HMRC linked in your systems if reference numbers are quoted and if there is doubt on this should I send all previous correspondence as a bundle? 4. Does making Class 2 contributions vs Class 3 contributions get you the same pension? 5. Can the persons on the helplines actually action things or do they simple give out information Many thanks in advance Moray

Hi HMRC 20, Thank you for your replies of the last few days. I have already written and sent the letter you suggest asking for my contributions already made against the Class 3 schedule to be allocated against the Class 2 schedule (although perhaps not in the clearest form "if the payment schedule in the letter you sent me is correct please take these monies from the monies I have already sent you and refund the difference, here are my bank account details"). Against this background can you advise me on the following points: Is it worth my sending an additional letter clarifying the point you make about my having paid Class 3 contributions and I only need to pay Class 2 or will this already be covered? I'm very happy to write another letter if you think it will help. To whom do I address any letter I write? e.g. FAO: "International Team" PT Operations NE, FAO "my case worker's name" PT Operations NE, FAO "the admin officer who wrote the last letter to me" PT Operations NE, FAO something else (and also confirm I write to PT Operations NE. Given, I have written several letters now to HMRC and I have included the references on the letters sent to me by HMRC in all these letters, are all these letters in "the system" and linked? For example is there a central database in HMRC where all the correspondence is scanned and held and the person dealing with it can simple access all previous correspondence on the issue or is the system manual and they have to retrieve physical case notes from a file. I ask because I can easily send all previous correspondence on the issue to make things easier for the person dealing with it. Do you have a recommendation? As regards your second reply: I don't think I need to contact the helpline as I have a letter from HMRC saying that they have received monies from me and a bank statement the monies have been sent. In my previous correspondence with HMRC I have sent HMRC a copy of the letter they have sent me saying they received monies from me and a copy of my bank statement showing the monies leaving my account so I am not sure what the helpline can help me with? If "Class 2 National Insurance contributions count towards pension in the same way that voluntary class 3 National Insurance contributions count" then does this not mean my pension will be as per the HMRC portal if I pay Class 2 contributions? Given Class 2 Contributions are less than Class 3, the decision for me to make (or not make) the contributions will be the same so I'm not sure why I need to contact Work and Pensions? I'm generally reluctant to call the numbers you suggest as all reports say there are enormous wait times and the price of international phone calls from Australia is expensive (when you are on hold for hours) and it would entail me being up most of the night because of time differences? Also please correct me if I am wrong the helplines can only give out information, they can't actually action things such as "we've pulled up your file, I'm now updating the website to show the contributions you have made and I'm pressing the button to refund the extra monies you paid to your bank account now. Both your bank account and the website should show the results in a couple of days"? My point is I think we both know what needs to be done and we are just discussing how best to get it actually done. I'll follow any advice you can give me to have this issue actioned expeditiously now I think we know what needs to be done Best, Moray

Hi HMRC Admin 20, Thank you for your explanation above. I have already paid monies at the Class 3 rate (as shown on the website) and I wrote in my reply to the letter saying I only need to pay at the Class 2 rate that if this was the case, HMRC should simply take the monies out of monies I already paid in April 2023 and refund me the difference (to the bank account from which I originally paid the monies and whose details I included in my letter). To expedite the resolution of this matter, do you think this is sufficient (i.e. HMRC are able to follow these instructions, update my records on the website and refund me the difference between what I paid in April 2023 and what HMRC believes I owe) or do I need to do anything else? I'm just trying to move things forwards as I am sure it is extremely frustrating for all that the backlog is so large that it takes circa 9 months to get a reply to each letter sent so I am trying to truncate the process if possible Best Moray

Hi HMRC Admin 20, Thank you for explanation above. It appears you are correct as the letter I received says "We've accepted your application to pay voluntary Class 2 NIC's by annual payment". This is despite my not making any such application but rather making the payments listed on your website (PTA = Personal Tax Account?) and sending in the CF83. Can you advise me as the best way to resolve this issue. I have already written back to PT Operations North East England saying the letter sent to me in January 2024 does not match my payments made nor the payment schedule on the HMRC website. I sent my letter FAO: the administrative officer who sent it. Should I write another letter explaining I want to pay voluntary Class 3 contributions inline with the figures on the HMRC website but the January 2024 letter I received (erroneously) gave me a Class 2 schedule to pay? Also should I address my letter FAO: the administrative officer who sent the letter in January 2024 or FAO: the caseworker who wrote to me in April 2023 and I thought was dealing with my issue but I have not heard from since or FAO anyone else? Thanks in advance for your help Best Moray

Hi "Keith", Agree with your comments about the quality of information from HMRC being variable. Unfortunately, this is the one and only place I have found you can get timely responses from HMRC. There is no way of communicating by email with them and all comments around calling helplines seem horrendous (imagine being on hold on an international call from Australia throughout the Australian night / UK day). Essentially, I made a mis-judgement. I was so impressed you could access such relevant and personal information via the portal with a government gateway ID (and the security around it seemed equally impressive) that I had no idea that despite the impressive "front end" the "back end" had not changed and after paying monies almost a year ago no-one in HMRC can seemingly say "Yup that is the right amount of money you have paid, we have updated the information in the portal and this is how things are now looking for you pension-wise, the next stage is to set something up so you can pay NI contributions on an ongoing basis" or "Your calculations were not quite right, here are the right calculations and you owe us/we owe you GBP X" I too am a little disappointed HMRC put my name up as well as I started this thread under the user name "Sydney" as I am living in Sydney, Australia, but HMRC then switched to putting up my name.....however this is a minor point

Hi HMRC Admin 19, I note your reply to "Keith" as above on 5 March, which goes to my question posted on the 26 February. I effectively followed your instructions given to "Keith" which means clicking on the links you provided and accessing your personal data with a government gateway ID. However, where you get to (as you are no doubt aware) is an estimate of your pension if you do nothing, one if you make payments on an ongoing basis and one if you also make back payments. There is then a list of the back payments you need to make (and from these making some assumptions you can then estimate what future payments are likely to be) to increase your future pension. It then becomes a personal financial decision as to whether making these back payments now to get a larger pension is worth it. Please confirm if this is broadly correct? However, what has happened in my case is the response I got in January 2024 to my submitted CF83 was a completely different set of payments I needed to make from the ones listed for myself on your website (and no estimates of how this would affect my future pension). This throws into question whether the payments necessary to increase the pension on your website are correct or not (if they are possibly wrong for me, why would they not be possibly wrong for "Keith" or anyone else following your instructions given to "Keith" as above?). If the figures on your website are incorrect, it follows the basis on which you are asking people to make financial decisions may be unsound? What assurances can you give myself and anyone else reading this thread that the estimates on your website are correct and will not be seemingly contradicted in later correspondence sent in a reply to a completed CF83 submission? If they are (as is seemingly my situation) what are my revised pension estimates given none came with the correspondence sent? I would have thought it would be a dangerous assumption to assume I could get the pension benefits outlined on your website with a completely different set of contribution payments (as per the letter I received) from the ones listed for me on your website? Please can you clarify for me the integrity of the data accessed via the links you suggest and perhaps help me resolve the issue of my contradictory letter received? Also can you confirm after waiting 9 months for a reply, my case now gets dealt with rather than going to the back of the queue and waiting another 9 months for a reply?

Hi, I finally got a response from HMRC in January 2024 after my letter of April 2023 (9 months, which by going through the comments on this site show that HMRC is reducing the backlog). However the response was not very satisfactory. Firstly, the response was not from my caseworker, but rather an administrative officer who gave me a whole new schedule of payments to make against Class 2 NI contributions. There was no acknowledgement I had made payment on 3rd April 2023 of the back contributions which were listed on the government gateway website. I am confused as to what contributions I need to make and what my estimated pension will be if I make those payments. I decided to make the back NI payments based on the ones listed on the government website and the estimated pension I would receive as outlined on the website. However the latest letter suggests I should make much lower Class 2 NI payments, but there is no mention of how this will increase my pension beyond its current level. How do you suggest I should proceed given I have already made the larger contributions back in 3rd April 2023? Is the information on the government website inaccurate or otherwise cannot be relied upon?

Hi Keith, In reply to your post of [11] January. The clear logic in HMRC extending the deadline multiple times and now out to April 2025 is that this is the estimated time they will need to clear the backlog. I'm sure they can't be certain as people are claiming on an ongoing basis like yourself which adds to the backlog that they are reducing by processing claims already made. I'd be concerned the "International Team" will "forget" to contact you just because they must have such a backlog of work and as you say they will be dealing with an issue from over 12 months ago and may not be that motivated to add to the backlog of work they already have. I would probably keep going until you get some piece of paper from HMRC saying that they will accept your claims back to 2006 and not cut you off regardless of when they get back to you. I would not advise doing what I did and just paying because then you may have the stress of wondering where you money went, is/was it processed correctly, did HMRC even receive it. On the other hand, I do have a piece of paper from HMRC saying they have received the monies and that I have met the deadline for payment so even if the monies I paid are incorrect, then HMRC is not (or unlikely to) reject my payment at this point. I also think if we get a reply from HMRC saying what the current backlog is we can judge whether it is going up or down based on what HMRC said about the backlog in prior posts in this forum - HMRC thoughts/comments? I'm not expecting you (HMRC) to make any commitments, but letting us know the current backlog would be helpful so we can draw our own conclusions