Gary C

Hi Jea7 1) I just ticked the one you mention. 2) that's a good question. I think I would be minded to pay this time and get things set up in good time for the next payment. 3) I have a € account and there are no costs. If you are using a £ account then there would be the exchange cost but you could ask your bank, just to be certain. You'll be making your first manual payment using SEPA anyway, i.e. entering their IBAN in your international payments part of your chosen bank, so that may answer your question. SEPA is just a Europe-wide system to keep costs down, so far as I know... I think I'll stay retired and just help people where I can, lol

1) You fill out the d/d form "Formular für SEPA-Lastschriftmandat (englisch)" from the Finanzamt Neu Brandenburg (RiA) website. If you click on "Formulare" and then on "Downloadcenter Formulare" in the box on the right your will find it in the list of forms under the heading, "Formulare und Hinweise für das SEPA-Lastschrifteinzugsverfahren". 2) If you set-up the d/d then broadly yes, but only if you have elected to have RiA assess you absent a tax return (Amtsveranlagung). If you do not elect for that treatment you will need to send a paper tax return each year without being prompted to do so! The form for this is also on their website and is called "Antwortformular englisch - Reply slip". Once that is in place you will receive a tax assessment each year once RiA have worked your case and tax will be taken automatically on the due dates, which I think are linked to the date the assessment is issued. (You have a right of appeal but I am not sure what happens about paying tax is you exercise that right when you receive your assessment). There is also a form to enable you to communicate by normal email. We are just getting up and running with all of this as my other half was able elect to be treated as if they are resident (a total tax fiction) which opens up access to the German personal allowance (normally non-residents do not qualify for any allowances or reliefs against their German-source income). This meant that for the first few years there was no tax to pay. However, this is only possible if at least 90% of your taxable income is German-source, OR, your non-German-source income is lower than the German Personal Allowance (Grundfreibetrag). Worth looking at if your UK income is less than 10,347€ for 2022. Anyway, my first tax assessment prepared by RiA shows an amount of tax due, which was collected by d/d on the due date. I had emailed them to confirm that they had received my d/d form and asked if they needed anything further - the answer was "no" and that they would send the assessment as and when as they are inundated. RiA will now take payments on account (POA) for tax year 2023 every 3 months (September, December and March for me), before (I assume) next year's assessment is issued with a balancing figure, then onwards and upwards with the next POAs... Hope this helps - it can seem a little daunting and to be honest, the German tax office is a little less customer-focused than HMRC, so we need to be thankful for what we have in the UK, lol.

Thanks. I am comfortable with the SA106 position, as we have been doing it for several years now, but was hoping that my wife and I could come off SA now that we no longer have UK property rental income. Oh well, at least I know well in advance that we will continue to have the joy of each of us completing a return each year. Also tell Jea7 that they too can look forward to a SA return each year...

 You make the election by reference to a particular tax year and it remains effective until you rescind it. Have a look at the "forms" tab on the RIA website (I cannot post links), either in English or German, and submit a "Antwortformular englisch - Reply slip" form. Re your question to HMRC about the informing them of the pension, if you submit a UK tax return, Page FN8 of the Foreign Notes to SA106 say "If you have a pension that’s not taxable in the UK because of a DTA, give full details of the pension’s payer, pension and relevant DTA in the ‘Any other information’ box on your tax return. " I take that to mean that one should put the same text in the "any other info box" every time one submits a return. It will be interesting to learn from HMRC what the process is if you are not in SA and/or if, having been in SA, HMRC agree that tax returns are no longer necessary.

Jea7, I communicate via e-mail but you need attachments to be in PDF and a few other limited formats - it will complain if you get it wrong. You will get 2 tax ID numbers. One is issued by RiA when they know you exist, so sending the form, absent a number, with a covering email should cover both bases. The other number is the newer Tax ID number that is intended to stay with you when you change tax offices (akin to our tax numbers) and will be issued in due course by the central tax office - you should not need to do anything to get this but it can take months - many months. But once you are in contact with RiA, you'll probably get an allocated caseworker and also be asked to complete an email authority form.

Kalim, I have just noticed your post. I am not sure why RiA is after a form UNLESS you are electing for the tax fiction of being treated as tax resident in Germany (unbeschraengt steuerpflichtig) to give access to the German personal allowance (Grundfreibetrag) and other German allowances. This is only available for people if, either 90% of their worldwide income is from German sources, or the amount of worldwide income that is not taxable in Germany (because of the tax treaty) is LESS than the German personal allowance - that non-German income would then feed into the rate at which you pay tax in Germany. Otherwise you are beschraengt steuerpflichtig (limited liability), and are simply taxed on your entire pension, other than the tax free element and an general allowance worth 102€. If you opt for Amtsveranlagung, then RiA wimply deals with all this but you do need to send them the relevant forms - none of which need to be signed/stamped by HMRC.

Not something HMRC can comment on. Germany does not operate a self-assessment regime and do not issue a notice to file a ruturn - you are simply under a legal obligation to submit a return by 31 May (I think), unless you ask RiA to undertake an Amtsveranlagung (assessment by RiA without a tax return). I would strongly recommend asking RiA to assess you, After they receive your return or undertake the Amtsveranlagung, they will send you a Steuerbescheid (tax assessment), against which you can appeal if you choose. That will set out your income, tax-free pension element, the tax due and the payment date. It makes clear that the exchange rate risk is yours and that is payment is not received by the due date, then interest will be payable. I started to receive my pension in 2022 and have opted for Amtsveranlagung. My payment date was 19 July. I have opted to pay by direct debit as this means you cannot miss the payment date (which I think is a given period after the assessment is issued, unlike the UK with fixed dates for everyone!). All of the forms you need are on the RiA website.

I am in a similar position. The Double Taxation Agreement between the UK and Germany awards taxing rights over state pensions (social security pensions) to the paying country, i.e. Germany in this case. Your tax office in Germany is Finanzamt Neubrandenburg Rente im Ausland (RiA) [link removed by admin] (if HMRC will allow the link, or at least leave the basics of the web address) and you should contact them to inform them of your chargeability. You will need to correspond with RiA in German, even though some of their website and forms are in English as well as German! The Deutsche Rentenversicherung (DRV) will inform RiA each year of the amount of your pension and it is taxable in its entirety because, as aresident you are not entitled to the German personal allowance, unless at least 90% of your income is taxable in Germany (unlikely), or your income that is not taxable in Germany is less than the German personal allowance (currently about 10,000€). In such cases you can elect to be treated as if you were resident for the purposes "only" of taxing your German pension (a tax fiction for want of a better phrase). This would result in no tax being payable on your small pension if you can make that election. The tax system in Germany is different to that in the UK. A major difference is that it is not a self assessment regime and you are required to file a tax return each year without being prompted. However, for RiA cases you can elect for the tax office to assess your tax liability in the absence of a tax return (they get all they need from the DRV). You can also set-up a direct debit for paying that tax to make sure you do not miss the payment deadline and get penalised as a result. In the UK you are not required to include the German pension on your UK tax return (if you submit one) but are requested in foreign note FN8 to put some text in the information box on your return, along the lines of: "I receive a German state social security pension from Deutsche Rentenversicherung Bund, paid via the German Post's Renten Service, which shall be taxable only in Germany under Article 17(2) of the UK/Germany Double Taxation Agreement. The pension has been in payment since XX 20XX. This statement is made in accordance with SA106 foreign notes, which explain on page FN8 that if you have a pension that is not taxable in the UK because of a DTA, give full details of the pension's payer, pension and relevant DTA in the Any other information box on your tax return." I assume HMRC may need to you make a statement of this nature once if you do not have to self assess, just so that your record has been noted but as I submit a return I am not sure about that. Hope this helps