Gary C

As a slight aside, have you looked at the US Windfall Elimination Provisions? Under certain circumstances, I think they can result in US pension benefits being reduced because a person has pension income from overseas. This could undo some of the benefit you would otherwise foresee from increasing your UK state pension by paying voluntary NI. Worth researching before you commit to paying UK NI.

Thank you.

Thank you. So the message is for people just to make sure they notify HMRC or the Finanzamt accordingly but the treaty itself does not foresee both countries taxing pensions.

Thanks but that doesn't really answer my question. We are talking here about the UK/German treaty and pensions, not some random form of income. HMRC Admin 19 said "If you have any other German pension then this could be taxed In both countries and you would then claim relief for the foreign tax paid." So, under what circumstances could a pension falling within the UK/Germany treaty fall to be taxed in both countries given the wording of Articles 17 and 18?

The DRV pension is the German social security pension and, according to Art 17(2) is taxable only in Germany - see note 4 in DT7904. The Ruhegehalt is, I think, a Government Service pension as it is a Civil Service pension and would be taxable only in the UK as you have dual citizenship, so Art. 18(2)(b) would apply - I am not sure about the VBL but is sounds like a Government Service pension as it is presumably: "... paid by [Germany], a “Land”, a political subdivision or a local authority of a “Land” or [the German state] or some other legal entity under public law of [Germany]..." but you would need to check on that one. If it is not a Government Service pension and if you paid into it for more than 15 years then note 3 of DT7904 would need to be considered. The above may enable you to focus any further questions for HMRC.

Can I ask under what circumstances a pension can be taxed in both the UK and Germany? Article 17(1), (2), (3) and (4) all refer to pensions being taxed only in one country or the other, as does Article 18(2). Is there soe other provision that could lead to them being taxed in both countries?

If a repayment arises, through PAYE or SA, for a person living abroad, does HMRC facilitate it by IBAN bank transfer or some other means? A UK cheque would be of no use to a non-resident with a UK bank account...

I may be wrong but I would not think that Church tax is supplement levied on any of the taxes covered by the DTA. My understanding is that it is a tax in its own right, levied on the members of certain religions, to finance church expenditure on things like the construction and maintenance of church buildings, paying the clergy an so on. If a person is not affiliated to any of the religions to which the tax applies, then they do not pay, church tax.

HMRC Admin 25, Sorry but I believe you may have misinterpreted Patrick's question, and I am not sure his question is completely clear anyway. We do not know whether he is talking about: * an occupational pension, that would be dealt with by Article 18, awarding taxing rights to the UK; * a government service pension, that would be dealt with by Article 19(2), awarding taxing rights to France; or * the French state pension, that be dealt with by Article 23(1), awarding taxing rights to the UK. Patrick, perhaps you can confirm the nature of your parents' various pensions - each one has to be considered on its own merits.

The contributions are not treated as paid in the other county but that fact that you have contributed means that the year can help you get past the required 10 years in the UK. If you have only 5 UK years and 20 NZ years, you would still only get 5 years' worth of UK pension. NZ would do a similar calculation using their rules, so your 5 UK years would help satisfy any NZ years' requirements but your NZ pension would still be based on your 20 NZ years