Gary C

Perhaps this is a question that can only be answered by DWP. Normally, if a person is already claiming their state pension, any increase by reason of filling gaps in their NI record is payable only from the date payment is made. However, what is the position if they were unable to fill such gaps before claiming their pension because of your delays (as you mention above)@ Will the state pension be increased from the person's state pension age, or , if later, the date the CF83 form was submitted, rather than the actual date of payment of the voluntary NI (assuming payment is made within whatever time period you specify in your response to their CF83)?

This isn't an HMRC issue. A good place to start would be to contact the Department for Work and Pensions International Pensions Centre (details on GOV UK as I cannot post links). Generally you can submit a claim for your UK state pension no earlier than 4 months before your birthday but the IPC will explain things for you.

HMRC Admin 20, That is correct but those years do not have to be only UK years. Under the EU regulations on the coordination of social security systems, which continue to apply for those covered by the EU Withdrawal Agreement, xk5ukb473's Italian and UK years would be aggregated and if they then exceed 10, a UK pension based on their 8 years would be payable in addition to any Italian pension they may in due course be able to claim, applying the same aggregation regulations.

As a slight aside, have you looked at the US Windfall Elimination Provisions? Under certain circumstances, I think they can result in US pension benefits being reduced because a person has pension income from overseas. This could undo some of the benefit you would otherwise foresee from increasing your UK state pension by paying voluntary NI. Worth researching before you commit to paying UK NI.

Thank you.

Thank you. So the message is for people just to make sure they notify HMRC or the Finanzamt accordingly but the treaty itself does not foresee both countries taxing pensions.

Thanks but that doesn't really answer my question. We are talking here about the UK/German treaty and pensions, not some random form of income. HMRC Admin 19 said "If you have any other German pension then this could be taxed In both countries and you would then claim relief for the foreign tax paid." So, under what circumstances could a pension falling within the UK/Germany treaty fall to be taxed in both countries given the wording of Articles 17 and 18?

The DRV pension is the German social security pension and, according to Art 17(2) is taxable only in Germany - see note 4 in DT7904. The Ruhegehalt is, I think, a Government Service pension as it is a Civil Service pension and would be taxable only in the UK as you have dual citizenship, so Art. 18(2)(b) would apply - I am not sure about the VBL but is sounds like a Government Service pension as it is presumably: "... paid by [Germany], a “Land”, a political subdivision or a local authority of a “Land” or [the German state] or some other legal entity under public law of [Germany]..." but you would need to check on that one. If it is not a Government Service pension and if you paid into it for more than 15 years then note 3 of DT7904 would need to be considered. The above may enable you to focus any further questions for HMRC.

Can I ask under what circumstances a pension can be taxed in both the UK and Germany? Article 17(1), (2), (3) and (4) all refer to pensions being taxed only in one country or the other, as does Article 18(2). Is there soe other provision that could lead to them being taxed in both countries?

If a repayment arises, through PAYE or SA, for a person living abroad, does HMRC facilitate it by IBAN bank transfer or some other means? A UK cheque would be of no use to a non-resident with a UK bank account...