Gary C

Kalim, I have just noticed your post. I am not sure why RiA is after a form UNLESS you are electing for the tax fiction of being treated as tax resident in Germany (unbeschraengt steuerpflichtig) to give access to the German personal allowance (Grundfreibetrag) and other German allowances. This is only available for people if, either 90% of their worldwide income is from German sources, or the amount of worldwide income that is not taxable in Germany (because of the tax treaty) is LESS than the German personal allowance - that non-German income would then feed into the rate at which you pay tax in Germany. Otherwise you are beschraengt steuerpflichtig (limited liability), and are simply taxed on your entire pension, other than the tax free element and an general allowance worth 102€. If you opt for Amtsveranlagung, then RiA wimply deals with all this but you do need to send them the relevant forms - none of which need to be signed/stamped by HMRC.

Not something HMRC can comment on. Germany does not operate a self-assessment regime and do not issue a notice to file a ruturn - you are simply under a legal obligation to submit a return by 31 May (I think), unless you ask RiA to undertake an Amtsveranlagung (assessment by RiA without a tax return). I would strongly recommend asking RiA to assess you, After they receive your return or undertake the Amtsveranlagung, they will send you a Steuerbescheid (tax assessment), against which you can appeal if you choose. That will set out your income, tax-free pension element, the tax due and the payment date. It makes clear that the exchange rate risk is yours and that is payment is not received by the due date, then interest will be payable. I started to receive my pension in 2022 and have opted for Amtsveranlagung. My payment date was 19 July. I have opted to pay by direct debit as this means you cannot miss the payment date (which I think is a given period after the assessment is issued, unlike the UK with fixed dates for everyone!). All of the forms you need are on the RiA website.

We seem to be going round in circles here. Can you please set out how Article 18(2)(b) applies when a Spanish national, resident in Spain, receives a UK Government Service pension. My understanding is that in those circumstances, taxing rights revert to Spain and HMRC may require a form as proof. Similarly, when the same person has both British and Spanish nationality, the would still fall within Article 18(2)(b). This is not only an issue relating to Spain. I am aware of people in Germany suffering double taxation on UK Government Service pensions because they have taken German citizenship, the German authorities are contending that they fall foul of this Article, yet HMRC sometimes gives and NT code and is sometimes refusing for people with the same residence and nationalities.

Admin 10 and 25, Thanks. I know that government pensions are normally taxable only in the paying country as that is stipulated in Article 18 (2)(a). However, where the recipient has (in this case) Spanish nationality and is resident in Spain then Article 18(2)(b) is clear that the pension shall be taxable only in the country of residence. The fact that the person may be required to submit a form to ensure the UK does not tax the pension contrary to the wording of the DTA is surely secondary to the question asked.

My understanding is that it reverts to the country of residence and that single/dual nationality is not relevant; only that you have Spanish nationality and receive a UK Government Service pension while resident in Spain. The treaty refers to "a national of", not something else to deal with the concept of "a national of, as well as a national of somewhere else". My reasoning is that the 1964 UK/German treaty was worded slightly differently from the current one, which is worded the same in this regard as the UK/Spain treaty. In that old treaty the Government Service Pension citizenship override says, that the receipt of a UK government service pension when resident in Germany shall be exempt from German tax "unless the payment is made to a German national who is not also a national of the UK". If the current treaties intended to continue that outcome, then the wording would sure not have been changed to omit the reference to dual nationality... My understanding is that UK/German dual nationality citizens in receipt of UK Government Service pensions in Germany are being taxed on that income in Germany.

HMRC Admin 10, Can I question that please? Amitia is a Spanish citizen. Surely Article 18(2)(b) means that taxing rights revert to Spain "2. b) However, such pensions and other similar remuneration shall be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the individual is a resident of, and a national of, that State."

The letter is not particularly helpful as it says only that the new weekly amount is £X. That still leaves everyone scratching their heads over how to calculate the annual amount to which they are entitled, as opposed to how much goes into the bank, given that their April payment will always include 1, 2 or 3 weeks at the old rate and the remainder at the new rate. It would be so easy for DWP to amend its systems to include on that letter what the person's annual entitlement will be given that they know from which payment the new rate will apply.

HMRC Admin 28, I think you meant to say that the UK state pension must be reported based on the full amount to which the person is entitled, not the amount they actually received in the tax year.

I am in a similar position. The Double Taxation Agreement between the UK and Germany awards taxing rights over state pensions (social security pensions) to the paying country, i.e. Germany in this case. Your tax office in Germany is Finanzamt Neubrandenburg Rente im Ausland (RiA) [link removed by admin] (if HMRC will allow the link, or at least leave the basics of the web address) and you should contact them to inform them of your chargeability. You will need to correspond with RiA in German, even though some of their website and forms are in English as well as German! The Deutsche Rentenversicherung (DRV) will inform RiA each year of the amount of your pension and it is taxable in its entirety because, as aresident you are not entitled to the German personal allowance, unless at least 90% of your income is taxable in Germany (unlikely), or your income that is not taxable in Germany is less than the German personal allowance (currently about 10,000€). In such cases you can elect to be treated as if you were resident for the purposes "only" of taxing your German pension (a tax fiction for want of a better phrase). This would result in no tax being payable on your small pension if you can make that election. The tax system in Germany is different to that in the UK. A major difference is that it is not a self assessment regime and you are required to file a tax return each year without being prompted. However, for RiA cases you can elect for the tax office to assess your tax liability in the absence of a tax return (they get all they need from the DRV). You can also set-up a direct debit for paying that tax to make sure you do not miss the payment deadline and get penalised as a result. In the UK you are not required to include the German pension on your UK tax return (if you submit one) but are requested in foreign note FN8 to put some text in the information box on your return, along the lines of: "I receive a German state social security pension from Deutsche Rentenversicherung Bund, paid via the German Post's Renten Service, which shall be taxable only in Germany under Article 17(2) of the UK/Germany Double Taxation Agreement. The pension has been in payment since XX 20XX. This statement is made in accordance with SA106 foreign notes, which explain on page FN8 that if you have a pension that is not taxable in the UK because of a DTA, give full details of the pension's payer, pension and relevant DTA in the Any other information box on your tax return." I assume HMRC may need to you make a statement of this nature once if you do not have to self assess, just so that your record has been noted but as I submit a return I am not sure about that. Hope this helps

I am not sure of the process for claiming a pension from Switzerland but from what the Swiss say, it appears similar to that for claiming a pension from an EU country, i.e. you claim through the UK International Pensions Team on 0191 21 87777. For EU pensions they will send you a form CFN901 and looking at that form it suggests the same process applies for Switzerland, i.e. that country is also subject to the EU regulations on the Coordination of Social Security System and the same form needs to be completed. It is not possible to download that form (yet), so, a call to the number above will hopefully get the process started for you.